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	<title>Comments for The New Church</title>
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	<link>http://thenewchurch.org</link>
	<description>The Rev. Bruce Van Blair, Pastor</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 23:04:11 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on TNC Forum by andy</title>
		<link>http://thenewchurch.org/tnc-forum/#comment-90</link>
		<dc:creator>andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 23:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thenewchurch.org/?p=2115#comment-90</guid>
		<description>Tough question, but to gets things started…

I think God is a sentient, caring being and not some Platonic life force.  What I or anyone thinks God thinks is just opinion or guesswork unless the question is approached from a solid foundation. That leads to the Bible as a or the source document to understand God’s thoughts.  That statement presupposes validity of the Bible as a source of truth.  Opinions regarding its validity range from absolute to partial to not at all.  We are in a time in which the Bible suffers from overt attacks which characterize it as a fanciful book which is fair to good reading and at best a source document for much literature and art. It also suffers from more subtle denigration characterizing it as a product of man, not God. Often this attitude is more favorable at least in saying that the men were inspired by God.  Lastly would be the opinion that the Bible is literally true; or if not,  is at least source of absolute truth. The difference there is illustrated by the creation story as absolutely factual versus a myth which conveys truth about God and His earth. I guess I subscribe to the latter.  BTW all other books, essays, religions surely have elements of truth as God daily influences all of us – but they are less reliable. Similarly God’s contact with us through prayer: how do you know it is valid and real? Well, I believe we must use the Bible as a foundational sounding board.

Bruce mentions the OT (wasn’t sure as to its reliability) and that Jesus often contradicts the OT.  Well, critics of the book and Christianity often point out Jewish men of God falling short (adultery, murder, multiple wives etc. etc.) but the OT shows the mayhem caused by violating God’s laws. Equally the OT is laden with extra law created by religious leaders – look at Leviticus: so of course Jesus would not support man’s laws which actually fetter rather than free us.

People say that even what Jesus said (maybe Paul too) was recorded by others. The books were often fragments and went through many iterations to get to what we have now. 

All this is long-winded (and I assume controversial) but I feel you have to start (and end) somewhere to know what God says and thinks. That said, I think despite any  arguments to the contrary, the Bible is truth (not fact) and we can pretty well find out what God thinks (especially when His Son speaks) by “studying some portion of the 
Bible each day.’</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tough question, but to gets things started…</p>
<p>I think God is a sentient, caring being and not some Platonic life force.  What I or anyone thinks God thinks is just opinion or guesswork unless the question is approached from a solid foundation. That leads to the Bible as a or the source document to understand God’s thoughts.  That statement presupposes validity of the Bible as a source of truth.  Opinions regarding its validity range from absolute to partial to not at all.  We are in a time in which the Bible suffers from overt attacks which characterize it as a fanciful book which is fair to good reading and at best a source document for much literature and art. It also suffers from more subtle denigration characterizing it as a product of man, not God. Often this attitude is more favorable at least in saying that the men were inspired by God.  Lastly would be the opinion that the Bible is literally true; or if not,  is at least source of absolute truth. The difference there is illustrated by the creation story as absolutely factual versus a myth which conveys truth about God and His earth. I guess I subscribe to the latter.  BTW all other books, essays, religions surely have elements of truth as God daily influences all of us – but they are less reliable. Similarly God’s contact with us through prayer: how do you know it is valid and real? Well, I believe we must use the Bible as a foundational sounding board.</p>
<p>Bruce mentions the OT (wasn’t sure as to its reliability) and that Jesus often contradicts the OT.  Well, critics of the book and Christianity often point out Jewish men of God falling short (adultery, murder, multiple wives etc. etc.) but the OT shows the mayhem caused by violating God’s laws. Equally the OT is laden with extra law created by religious leaders – look at Leviticus: so of course Jesus would not support man’s laws which actually fetter rather than free us.</p>
<p>People say that even what Jesus said (maybe Paul too) was recorded by others. The books were often fragments and went through many iterations to get to what we have now. </p>
<p>All this is long-winded (and I assume controversial) but I feel you have to start (and end) somewhere to know what God says and thinks. That said, I think despite any  arguments to the contrary, the Bible is truth (not fact) and we can pretty well find out what God thinks (especially when His Son speaks) by “studying some portion of the<br />
Bible each day.’</p>
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		<title>Comment on TNC Forum by Barbara Schugt</title>
		<link>http://thenewchurch.org/tnc-forum/#comment-88</link>
		<dc:creator>Barbara Schugt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 15:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thenewchurch.org/?p=2115#comment-88</guid>
		<description>Interesting after a very intense and contentious Board Mtg. Monday ... Heidi, my handicapped daughter, called me at 1:00 AM.  She had not been able to sleep, so worried about me. She waited until she knew I’d be up at 1.  As we talked, a profound sense of love and grace enveloped me, beyond words.  Don’t remember ever experiencing that.  

There I am; wasn’t I?  Hey, ... Jesus,  wait for me.  [Have I been with you so long and you do not know – see - hear me?]
 
I think – I feel – I hear God hinting to me at 1:00 AM.
 
I think he says to tell no one?  Because you can’t.  It’s ineffable?
My doubts cover for me. Under them is the kaleidoscope; rainbow of ways God/Jesus talks to me.  My ‘I’ness wants it my way.  Like St. Paul and Moses ‘heard’.   Surely not like Isaiah ... the still small voice.  

God may be ‘speaking’ with force; with justice; with hearing; with light; with a relationship; a flowing, shining energy.  “I am one with Source, as long as I act as Source by letting all things flow through me.”

I’m beginning to hear the spring cacophony of frogs again outside this morning.  
Which one is my sound?

To communicate an experience ... like with Heidi at 1:00 AM ... is no minor affair.  Must be God’s dilemma, too?  My story, my dilemma is the reverse of the Prodigal son.  I am the Prodigal mom coming away from the relationship of caretaker of my daughter ... to love so deep, as in “with purity of heart.”  At least in a hint, a flavor, a touch at 1:00 AM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting after a very intense and contentious Board Mtg. Monday &#8230; Heidi, my handicapped daughter, called me at 1:00 AM.  She had not been able to sleep, so worried about me. She waited until she knew I’d be up at 1.  As we talked, a profound sense of love and grace enveloped me, beyond words.  Don’t remember ever experiencing that.  </p>
<p>There I am; wasn’t I?  Hey, &#8230; Jesus,  wait for me.  [Have I been with you so long and you do not know – see - hear me?]</p>
<p>I think – I feel – I hear God hinting to me at 1:00 AM.</p>
<p>I think he says to tell no one?  Because you can’t.  It’s ineffable?<br />
My doubts cover for me. Under them is the kaleidoscope; rainbow of ways God/Jesus talks to me.  My ‘I’ness wants it my way.  Like St. Paul and Moses ‘heard’.   Surely not like Isaiah &#8230; the still small voice.  </p>
<p>God may be ‘speaking’ with force; with justice; with hearing; with light; with a relationship; a flowing, shining energy.  “I am one with Source, as long as I act as Source by letting all things flow through me.”</p>
<p>I’m beginning to hear the spring cacophony of frogs again outside this morning.<br />
Which one is my sound?</p>
<p>To communicate an experience &#8230; like with Heidi at 1:00 AM &#8230; is no minor affair.  Must be God’s dilemma, too?  My story, my dilemma is the reverse of the Prodigal son.  I am the Prodigal mom coming away from the relationship of caretaker of my daughter &#8230; to love so deep, as in “with purity of heart.”  At least in a hint, a flavor, a touch at 1:00 AM.</p>
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